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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:57 pm
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Riam wrote:
MissBumpy wrote:
If it was your daughter, no matter what reason someone gave, would you want people looking at photos of her in that state? I'm sure very few of you would say oh yes parents please look and learn valuable lessons.


Take another think about that. If it was your daughter, would you want people to report it and do what they can to have each instance removed from websites, or would you prefer people skipped over it and left it in the hands of the people who for some reason find it hilarious? If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you'll notice plenty of us reporting it. Do you think it's better to just bemoan how horrible internet users are and go on our merry way?


In your initial post you made no reference at all to you making any reports as to what you saw.

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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:58 pm
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luasgirl wrote:
Afaik missbumpy in Ireland it is child porn if it is a child under 17 so strictly speaking that definition doesn't apply to those pictures.


Luasgirl is right. Assuming the girl is 17, as has been stated in the papers, then the images and video are not classed as child pornography.

Check the legislation -scroll down to how the act defines a child as a person under the age of 17.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/ ... print.html

So, the images are just plain old 'porn' and as we all know on MM, porn is just a normal part of our sex lives and nothing to be ashamed of.
Right?


(sarcasm alert)


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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:01 pm
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novbaby31 wrote:
This thread is mad. People are actively seeking out the pictures to educate themselves as to what teenagers get up to at concerts so they can talk to their children. I haven't enough rolled eye emoticons for that.

If that is why you looked at them it makes you no different to those who are looking at them for the gossipy reasons. You are perpetuating the distress of a young girl and her family. Knowingly perpetuating the distress. Save us the moral justifications about why you need to see them to protect you children better. It is utter crap.


It's not crap novbaby. It's just that not everybody thinks the same as you.
Which is fine.

People have different ways of dealing with issues like this - if you feel that you know exactly what went on at Slane the other day just based on reading a thread like this, and you feel that you fully know what every teenager in Ireland knows about the situation , that's fine.
But, there are other parents out there who don't think that listening to 3rd, 4th, 5th... 10th hand :crazy: reports of the pictures puts them in a position to understand what the issue is.
And that's their prerogative to feel that way.

There are many different reasons for viewing the pictures.
There are radio journalists out there who have all viewed the photos so that they can host discussion panels about the pictures... are they viewing the pictures for kicks (as some above would have it) or to educate themselves?
Are the panellists on every programme who are talking about the pictures viewing the pictures purely in order to distress this family, or are they doing it so that they can be fully informed?
Are the people who viewed the pictures in the newspapers the other day also viewing/reading the articles with thee sole intention of distressing the family?
I don't think they are.

You do obviously believe that any one of the above people , along with any MMs who viewed the pictures, are doing so purely to further distress this family.
Which is fine.
But of course many people would think that point of view is just utter crap.


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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:06 pm
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I Poop Rainbows wrote:
I wish everyone would stop referring to it as child porn. In my opinion there is a world of difference between the utter horrors of genuine child porn and a drunken girl who made a huge mistake at a festival.

I have every sympathy for her and her family but I personally feel like this should not be called child porn as that is a completely different ballgame and would hate to think that it would be put in the same category as some of the poor children who's lives have been utterly devastated by child porn/abuse.

Just my two cents, please feel free to ignore me and carry on arguing.


If the girl is underage, regardless of whether or not she was sober, the images would be classed as child porn because she is underage.

Just as you said above, I think this young woman's life will be destroyed by the images, regardless of whether those images are technically porn or child porn. I doubt that matters to her or her family.

That's not taking away from the damage child abuse does - but I think this story tells us that abuse in older teens or lack of consent leading to abuse is a very big problem for our society.

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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:07 pm
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Lulubop - those who are viewing the photos are adding to the distress of the girl and her family. There is no way round that. Every click on those photos adds to the distress. Your rationale for doing so will be utterly irrelevant to the girl in question and her family.


I cannot fathom how a parent could knowingly increase the distress of a teenager in this situation. It think it is cruel. Rationalise how you like - every view of those photos makes it worse for the girl in question. I don't need to see them to protect my children and I certainly will not be responsible in any small way for making this girl and her family suffer more than they have already. Not even to protect my children.


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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:13 pm
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novbaby31 wrote:
Lulubop - those who are viewing the photos are adding to the distress of the girl and her family. There is no way round that. Every click on those photos adds to the distress. Your rationale for doing so will be utterly irrelevant to the girl in question and her family.


I cannot fathom how a parent could knowingly increase the distress of a teenager in this situation. It think it is cruel. Rationalise how you like - every view of those photos makes it worse for the girl in question. I don't need to see them to protect my children and I certainly will not be responsible in any small way for making this girl and her family suffer more than they have already. Not even to protect my children.

Which is fine.
I'm sure there are some parents out there who cannot fathom why other parents would not educate themselves fully on what the teenagers in their family are being exposed to and what they are up to.
Different folks, different strokes.

There is not only one side on this topic.


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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:15 pm
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Lulubop wrote:
novbaby31 wrote:
This thread is mad. People are actively seeking out the pictures to educate themselves as to what teenagers get up to at concerts so they can talk to their children. I haven't enough rolled eye emoticons for that.

If that is why you looked at them it makes you no different to those who are looking at them for the gossipy reasons. You are perpetuating the distress of a young girl and her family. Knowingly perpetuating the distress. Save us the moral justifications about why you need to see them to protect you children better. It is utter crap.


It's not crap novbaby. It's just that not everybody thinks the same as you.
Which is fine.

People have different ways of dealing with issues like this - if you feel that you know exactly what went on at Slane the other day just based on reading a thread like this, and you feel that you fully know what every teenager in Ireland knows about the situation , that's fine.
But, there are other parents out there who don't think that listening to 3rd, 4th, 5th... 10th hand :crazy: reports of the pictures puts them in a position to understand what the issue is.
And that's their prerogative to feel that way.

There are many different reasons for viewing the pictures.
There are radio journalists out there who have all viewed the photos so that they can host discussion panels about the pictures... are they viewing the pictures for kicks (as some above would have it) or to educate themselves?
Are the panellists on every programme who are talking about the pictures viewing the pictures purely in order to distress this family, or are they doing it so that they can be fully informed?
Are the people who viewed the pictures in the newspapers the other day also viewing/reading the articles with thee sole intention of distressing the family?
I don't think they are.

You do obviously believe that any one of the above people , along with any MMs who viewed the pictures, are doing so purely to further distress this family.
Which is fine.
But of course many people would think that point of view is just utter crap.


I don't think that novbaby31 (I won't talk for her though!), myself or indeed anyone else is saying that MMs are viewing these pictures with a view to self-gratification. What we are saying (I think) is that there was no need for MMs to view these images & no good could possibly come of viewing them, wrt MMs kids who are teenagers or approaching the teenage years being in any way safer. Lulubop, I think your eldest is a few years away from the teen years yet, just 3yrs older than my eldest?

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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:20 pm
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MummyPlum wrote:
Riam wrote:
MissBumpy wrote:
If it was your daughter, no matter what reason someone gave, would you want people looking at photos of her in that state? I'm sure very few of you would say oh yes parents please look and learn valuable lessons.


Take another think about that. If it was your daughter, would you want people to report it and do what they can to have each instance removed from websites, or would you prefer people skipped over it and left it in the hands of the people who for some reason find it hilarious? If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you'll notice plenty of us reporting it. Do you think it's better to just bemoan how horrible internet users are and go on our merry way?


In your initial post you made no reference at all to you making any reports as to what you saw.


No, I didn't see the need to mention that I was flagging every picture I came across, I would have taken that as a given for most parents who saw it. I didn't mention I didn't share it either, but again .... I did mention later on that reporting an actual text Tweet was very difficult. A couple of other people also mentioned the replies they got from Facebook on reporting it there - I didn't come across it on Facebook. But feel free to try to make everyone else feel like crap while patting your own back. At the end of the day though, I've seen dozens of photos removed and the sharers comment that they've had to open new accounts - and these are the people I've reported, probably along with others, and I also reported the girl who tweeted that she should kill herself, and her account was suspended a few minutes later. But I'm sure your distant disapproval is far more effective so carry on.

Obviously no good came of me reporting it, having come across it accidentally. None at all. Or any of the other people who flagged pictures, or any of the people who commented on Tweets that they were reporting them, or the particular person who tagged Twitter users with a note that they were sharing images of a vulnerable young girl. Obviously Twitter was going to intervene by itself, and obviously it was going to magically see all those photos without it being reported, and obviously the whole thing would have stopped by itself without people reposting that anyone who shared it would have their account suspended. Nope, next time I'll just tut.

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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:22 pm
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Lulubop wrote:
novbaby31 wrote:
Lulubop - those who are viewing the photos are adding to the distress of the girl and her family. There is no way round that. Every click on those photos adds to the distress. Your rationale for doing so will be utterly irrelevant to the girl in question and her family.


I cannot fathom how a parent could knowingly increase the distress of a teenager in this situation. It think it is cruel. Rationalise how you like - every view of those photos makes it worse for the girl in question. I don't need to see them to protect my children and I certainly will not be responsible in any small way for making this girl and her family suffer more than they have already. Not even to protect my children.

Which is fine.
I'm sure there are some parents out there who cannot fathom why other parents would not educate themselves fully on what the teenagers in their family are being exposed to and what they are up to.
Different folks, different strokes.

There is not only one side on this topic.


But it is one teenager/young girl in one family that you are focusing on . . . not all teenagers; not all young women - just one. And while her behaviours are most likely not uncommon, you are still choosing to focus all your efforts on just one girl who has, imo, suffered enough at the hands of the unguarded press that is Twitter & the likes.

Looking at the images of this girls is NOT educating yourself fully on what teenagers are being exposed to - rather it is increasing the distress caused to one family by one young girl's actions, whether consensual or not.

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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:29 pm
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MummyPlum wrote:
I don't think that novbaby31 (I won't talk for her though!), myself or indeed anyone else is saying that MMs are viewing these pictures with a view to self-gratification. What we are saying (I think) is that there was no need for MMs to view these images & no good could possibly come of viewing them, wrt MMs kids who are teenagers or approaching the teenage years being in any way safer. Lulubop, I think your eldest is a few years away from the teen years yet, just 3yrs older than my eldest?

Well, :lookround: I have absolutely no idea what age your child(ren) is Mummy Plum, but to be clear, I have never proclaimed to have a teenager. I have referred to (paraphrasing) "educating myself on the world my children are growing up in".... and "understanding what the teenagers in the family are dealing with"... etc. I do not have a teenager child, but I do indeed have teenagers in my family who I watch out for. And I do have a child who in a few short years will be teenager himself.

You guys are completely entitled to your pov, but I wish you guys would at least TRY to understand that some parents may have viewed the photos for reasons besides nosiness, purient interest or a wish to view child pornography.
It doesn't mean you need to adopt the same approach as such people, but just understand and accept that other parents make choices on these kinds of issues that may be different to your choices, but their choices may be just as valid as yours.

Anyway - I'm going to try and bow out of this thread at this stage, as I too am finding myself succumbing to the eye rolling that other posters have mentioned above.


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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:32 pm
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ah keep going girls. Sure we're only on page 16 and it's just riveting stuff. I've only smacked my head off the wall once which is good going (in fairness I passed out for 20 minutes).

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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:41 pm
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If you think the issue is about whether the photos should have been viewed or not viewed, then you are missing the point...

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analy ... 19116.html

Thought this was a good article that summarises what parents need to focus on.


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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:42 pm
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LuckyMum wrote:
lilycat wrote:
I think a discussion about having respect for one's sexual partners seems to be lacking among young men/women.


This is an interesting talk on the metaphors used to describe sexual activity (particularly US based) and the need for a new metaphor. It came to mind when I read your thread.

http://www.ted.com/talks/al_vernacchio_ ... s_one.html


Mmm... Pizza...

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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:44 pm
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Lulubop wrote:
MummyPlum wrote:
I don't think that novbaby31 (I won't talk for her though!), myself or indeed anyone else is saying that MMs are viewing these pictures with a view to self-gratification. What we are saying (I think) is that there was no need for MMs to view these images & no good could possibly come of viewing them, wrt MMs kids who are teenagers or approaching the teenage years being in any way safer. Lulubop, I think your eldest is a few years away from the teen years yet, just 3yrs older than my eldest?

Well, :lookround: I have absolutely no idea what age your child(ren) is Mummy Plum, but to be clear, I have never proclaimed to have a teenager. I have referred to (paraphrasing) "educating myself on the world my children are growing up in".... and "understanding what the teenagers in the family are dealing with"... etc. I do not have a teenager child, but I do indeed have teenagers in my family who I watch out for. And I do have a child who in a few short years will be teenager himself.

You guys are completely entitled to your pov, but I wish you guys would at least TRY to understand that some parents may have viewed the photos for reasons besides nosiness, purient interest or a wish to view child pornography.
It doesn't mean you need to adopt the same approach as such people, but just understand and accept that other parents make choices on these kinds of issues that may be different to your choices, but their choices may be just as valid as yours.

Anyway - I'm going to try and bow out of this thread at this stage, as I too am finding myself succumbing to the eye rolling that other posters have mentioned above.


I do Lulubop & I don't for one moment think you viewing the images was for any reason other than concern for the world your children & nieces/nephews are growing up in. I don't think that everyone who viewed the images viewed them for self-gratification or because the girl was young or underage; I believe your reasons for viewing the images were genuine btw. I think your eldest is 3yrs older than my eldest, so that'd be 9+3 if my maths are correct, so just a few short months off being a teenager.

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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:46 am
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4LittleMen wrote:
ah keep going girls. Sure we're only on page 16 and it's just riveting stuff. I've only smacked my head off the wall once which is good going (in fairness I passed out for 20 minutes).


Could you post a photo please? I don't think I can completely understand your distress until I see it. :)

Personally, I wouldn't click on the photos (although pure curiousity made me think about it way back when Riam posted first) because I think like Novbaby31 and Mummyplum that there is no need and no justifiation given the horror faced by this girl and her family with them being out there. I understand that others think they need to see the photos to appreciate the full horror/depravity but I actually think focusing on that will lead you away from the messages your children are more likely to need to hear from you. We all know that there is horror and depravity out there particularly for women and particularly with regard to sexual abuse and being treated like shit by men who seem ordinary enough and groups of men enjoying women/girls being humiliated sexually. None of us need to see a photo to know that (and if you do, let me know where you live so I can send my children to live there too) Most of the time all you can do is warn your children how to stay safe. There are other aspects of this event which are more important in my mind

like drinking and getting really really drunk puts you in severe danger - male or female

Not sticking with your friends (at least a few of whom are sober) with you when out is unsafe

And most important - Don't have sex in public in front of other people where everyone can see you and take photos. I wouldn' care if my daughter was Juliet giving a blowjob to Romeo as an expression of their mutual love, respect and regard. You don't do that in public, you don't do it where others can photograph it (personally I will be telling my children not to let ANYONE no matter how much in love they are and no matter if it is the privacy of their own bedroom photograph them in a sexual position - wonder how many of us thought of that one when thinking of sex ed for our children), and if you do, you may well end up on the front page of Salon, The Daily Mail, the INdependent etc. and that won't be nice. even if you are in love with him and he isn't depraved.

I think looking at the photos is unnecesary and likely to make people, weirdly enough, feel safer (Sure my child will never get that drunk/go to a concert on her own/get separated from friends/get mixed up with shits like that). The truth is we now need to say explicitly to our children that blow jobs in public are taboo. (who knew it would come to this? ) and that camera phones etc now mean very little done in front of other people is private - especially people you don't know very well. I don't need to see a photo to undertand that times have changed and I now need to warn of dangers I never even thought of when I was growing up.

Still, in that immortal MM phrase ... each to her own.


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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:04 pm
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Great post overhere, do not need to see those photos, we know the story by now, don't need to see the act itself.

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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:59 pm
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LuckyMum wrote:
Lulubop wrote:
I'm sure there are some parents out there who cannot fathom why other parents would not educate themselves fully on what the teenagers in their family are being exposed to and what they are up to.


I'm still genuinely curious as to what you learned by viewing the photos that will change how you parent, or empower you to protect your kids in ways that you wouldn't have before. What will you do differently as a result of viewing those photos that you would not have done after reading what happened?

For the love of God LuckyMum can you just let it go. Do you have to have the last word. :sigh: I'm sure the girls family are so grateful for you bumping this thread again. They'd probably prefer if you'd viewed the photos. :stern:


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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:09 am
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novbaby31 wrote:


I cannot fathom how a parent could knowingly increase the distress of a teenager in this situation. It think it is cruel. Rationalise how you like - every view of those photos makes it worse for the girl in question. I don't need to see them to protect my children and I certainly will not be responsible in any small way for making this girl and her family suffer more than they have already. Not even to protect my children.


As has been said above, I find no need for a visual depiction of what happened; the written descriptions more than suffice. The other day I was googling something and typed in 'who'. Before I had a chance to complete my search, 'who is slane girl' appeared as a search suggestion. I think it is pretty impossible to imagine how that might feel for the girl and family in question.


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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:13 am
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Posher wrote:
LuckyMum wrote:
Lulubop wrote:
I'm sure there are some parents out there who cannot fathom why other parents would not educate themselves fully on what the teenagers in their family are being exposed to and what they are up to.


I'm still genuinely curious as to what you learned by viewing the photos that will change how you parent, or empower you to protect your kids in ways that you wouldn't have before. What will you do differently as a result of viewing those photos that you would not have done after reading what happened?

For the love of God LuckyMum can you just let it go. Do you have to have the last word. :sigh: I'm sure the girls family are so grateful for you bumping this thread again. They'd probably prefer if you'd viewed the photos. :stern:


19 minutes between her post & the previous one. And I think it is a valid question, although one I doubt will be answered.

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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:17 am
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As said previously, if you think the most important issue that you can hark on about is the rights or wrongs of whether someone has viewed the actual photos or not... Then you are missing the point.


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