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Child not baptised-Catholic school
https://www.magicmum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=416351
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Author:  Kooky [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Child not baptised-Catholic school

Sorry for vague title but I couldn't fit my question in.

What I was wondering was if your child is not baptised into the Catholic Church, were you refused a place in a Catholic school. I have seen posts here where people say the only reason they got their children baptised was so they could be sure of a place in school, but has anyone actually been refused? I mean did you go to the school to check the situation and then make your decision on the baptism based on the school rules?

There are a few Cathlolic schools around here but they have children from all backgrounds and they certainly don't seem to refuse anyone so I'd be interested to know if these refusals actually happen (and not to someone's cousin's granny's nephew :D )

Author:  samca [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

Our kids were baptised in a COI church and go to a RC school.

Author:  Torbreck [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

I'll get back to you in 3 years time when I know where DD ends up attending!

If DD doesn't get into my school of choice (quite possible), the other local catholic and COI schools have similar policies as listed below. Both schools are over subscribed, so I very much doubt she will be offered a place in either of them as she is bottom of the 'preference list' even though we live in the area As far as I am concerned, not offering her a space is akin to a refusal.

Welcome to equality and religious freedom - Irish style! :biggrin:

Quote:
...we give precedent to:

*Catholic girls from the Parish of XXX (priority to oldest)
*Siblings of children already in the school (priority to oldest)
*Children of teachers presently in the parish schools and grandchildren of past teachers (priority to oldest)
*Catholic girls from outside the parish who have a brother attending XXX Boys School
*Catholic children from outside the parish, proximity to school taken into consideration and then priority to oldest.

*When space permits children of other faiths who live within the parish boundaries who might wish to attend the school

Author:  Kooky [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

Torbeck, that's why I'm interested in hearing from those who have already been through this to see if they have actually been refused a place.

nbgb, I think in my area there is enough places to go around at the moment but I could be totally wrong, but I definately know of children of other faiths who are in the Catholic schools.

Author:  iuil [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

DD1 was refused a place in the CoI school.

IIRC their order of preference is CoI/Methodist, other Protestant, Catholic, other religions, no religion.

Author:  Kooky [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

iuil wrote:
DD1 was refused a place in the CoI school.

IIRC their order of preference is CoI/Methodist, other Protestant, Catholic, other religions, no religion.


Hmm even our local COI school has Catholic children. Maybe we're just lucky around here.

Pseudonym, did you contact them to say your child was not baptised and if so what did they say. I'm wondering if schools ask for the cert as a matter of course but don't have a problem if there isn't one.

Author:  iuil [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

Kooky wrote:
iuil wrote:
DD1 was refused a place in the CoI school.

IIRC their order of preference is CoI/Methodist, other Protestant, Catholic, other religions, no religion.


Hmm even our local COI school has Catholic children. Maybe we're just lucky around here.


There are Catholic children attending the CoI school, DD1 was not baptised therefore fell to the bottom of the order of preference after all children with any religious affiliation at all, Christian or not.

Author:  Kooky [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

Yes, I think especially in the last few years a lot of families have left the area, so there are spaces for everyone.

I suppose what I was really trying to see was if people are using the "I got them baptised for school reasons" line when really they do it for other reasons :sly: Maybe this should be in unpopular opinions :D

Author:  Aliwassi [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

wtf priorities by religion ?my kids are not catholic and go to a catholic school funded not by the church but by my
taxes. I would have fucking dared them to refuse/knock them to the bottom of the list on religious grounds. I would have shouted to anyone who would have listened how my children were being unfairly treated.
my children go to this school because of the small class sizes not because of the religious aspect.

Author:  Overhere [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

I can't answer the poll but I suspect the pressure from family/society plus assumption that you just go ahead and baptise the child as a normal part of life plays more of a part in non practicing catholics baptising their babies than school places - even though it can matter in some areas. Interesting question.

Author:  Torbreck [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

Oh do join in on Unpopular Opinions thread! Religion and education is one of the truly few UO left these days :biggrin:

My neighbour got her 6 year old and her 6 month old baptised together - so the 6 month old could get a place in a preferred school and so the 6 year old wouldn't feel left out and could do FHC. They are not regular attenders at mass and the parish priest sent some local (bona fide) worshippers to their house to 'talk to them' about the importance of FHC and going to mass regularly! I kid you not.

Do the churches cross reference their baptisimal databases? I could always hedge my bets and get DD baptised in RC AND COI and then I could moan about which school will we choose. If you can't beat 'em...

edited for typos

Author:  Aliwassi [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

I know this goes on but I wouldn't stand for it and I don't know why parents do. if the school was private I could understand but when my taxes are paying for it my kids are as entitled to go there as much as any catholic child.

my kids school welcome all denominations. there are 12 girls in dd class and only 9 made their confirmation. she told me only 6 girls are making it next year. as far as I can see they welcome everyone equally. I will fine out if the school was under pressure would they priorities Catholics but even at that I would have my td on to fine out why my taxes are paying for a school that are clearly discriminating against my children

Author:  Aliwassi [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

should say find out not fine out damn auto correct

Author:  Kooky [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

Torbeck, you might be on to something there, keep all your options open :D

OH and nbgb, yes I think expectations and pressure play a big part in it.

Author:  angelika [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

Aliwassi wrote:
I know this goes on but I wouldn't stand for it and I don't know why parents do. if the school was private I could understand but when my taxes are paying for it my kids are as entitled to go there as much as any catholic child.

my kids school welcome all denominations. there are 12 girls in dd class and only 9 made their confirmation. she told me only 6 girls are making it next year. as far as I can see they welcome everyone equally. I will fine out if the school was under pressure would they priorities Catholics but even at that I would have my td on to fine out why my taxes are paying for a school that are clearly discriminating against my children


I don't see how you wouldn't stand for it though? They are legally entitled to discriminate and that's it. (I am totally against them being allowed to discrimate BTW)

Author:  ainm2 [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

Would this not be breaking some European law or something? Haven't a clue, but I'd love to know if you could take a case for discrimination against them - it should in no way be allowed to discriminate based on religion in a state run school.

Author:  Overhere [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

I'm amazed anyone on MM is shocked that school are allowed to discriminate. There have been many eloquent posters on here explaining exactly how the system works (ngbg is one of them).

Author:  ainm2 [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

I know it's legal in Ireland ngbg, I was just wondering if you could prove that this violated the rules of EU law or UN law or whatever else. (Can you tell I know nothing about law?!) .

Author:  Aliwassi [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

I did not know this was legal. I swear I knew schools did it but the area I live in.. the inner city., has lots of schools so I only heard of it and never actually experienced it Iykwim. only thing I have really experienced is location discrimination not myself but a neighbour of mine. I think its disgusting that the government think this is ok. but I suppose its typical of them would probably be too much hastle for them to get it sorted. I am going to find out from my kids school what their enrollment policy is

Author:  Torbreck [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Child not baptised-Catholic school

nbgb wrote:
tbh I'm surprised that you're shocked, it's legally permitted to descriminate on the basis of religion both in terms of enrolment and employment in schools - a derogation from the equal status act was sought to do this. The UN HRC have taken us to task on this and the availablity of non denom education but as far as I know the govt are heading back into it on the 15th to AGAIN defend this discrimination.


State-sanctioned (publicly-supported) discrimination against its own citizens! It is almost impressive.
I guess it is payback for the penal laws?

nbgb, do you have any further info on which gov dept/agency defends this to UN HCR?

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