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Good Question, ! I wonder did your dd ask the lad why he was in the girls changing room? Class above her and all that, if he did give her any gyp, that would have dented his ego. ( and yes they do have macho egos at that age).

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Christ Biddypat, I don't even know what to say to that All this about an eight year old boy in a changing room with his mother and younger sister. Don't assume all boys of 8 are sexually aware and have macho ego's, I assume your going on your own experiences of your own boys, because mine certainly weren't at eight.

What - it's "not on" for an 8/9 year old boy to witness his younger sister being changed?.... on the basis that sexual harassment can happen in families??

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, as I can't imagine that's what you meant to say, as THAT position would be the ultimate in paranoia.
How would that work at home.... a 3, 4 or 5 year old girl is getting changed into her pyjamas each night in the living room, and her older brother has to be shooed out of the room each time in case he sees her bum??

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Keep your heels, head and standards high

you are twisting my words, most are saying here that 8 year olds are innocent as the newly driven snow, not ALL are. My point is that boys of that age and above are beginning puberty no matter how much their mother will deny it. I am saying that the male locker room is NOT a den of horrors, and that at some stage mammies must realise that their baby is no longer a baby and needs to move on. If she is still inclined to want to keep the lad with her, then go to a pool that has unisex changing and cubicles to facilitate that, or if she insists on going to a private pool, then obey the rules and let him change in the mens room.
would all of you like your partners to go swimming with girls, and insist on taking your ten year old daughter into the mens, because some woman may sexually assault, or look at her in the ladies if she were alone?? lesbians do exist in Ireland, but yet nobody has thought that the same goes for girls, they too if they go swimming with daddy over the age of what?? must go change alone? but they do.

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NO , this is about a boy who is a year above a girl who is 8.5 which leaves him 9.5 or more.......... and if you think boys wake up at 13 with puberty, then you are mistaken, boys and girls are aware of sex at a very early age, and the stare is the bit that I am not at all happy with. Most boys , will glance and look away, they do not stare, I know his mother should have said stop that, but SHE DIDN'T, I am thinking she is a mm, and her boy is a baby, but he isn't he is interested in what is inside the towel and that is a sign that he is growing up, so he is no longer suitable in an are where he can watch to his hearts content girls his age, older, and younger in a state of undress..... simples.

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NO, you can only pass comment on your OWN boys. I have a teenager and preteen and I can comment on mine, you are not the authority on ALL boys. Yes he shouldn't stare, the mum should have stopped that but that didn't make that CHILD a sexual predator!

I don't disagree with anything you say about going to unisex change cubicles - we have that in the pool we go to which is great.

But, the part I queried was where you quite clearly said that "he doesn't need to be right beside her while she changes his little sister. ( which is also not on in my books, remember a lot of sexual harassment and abuse is at the hands of a family member, not a stranger in a changing room".
I'm not twisting any words there at all BP - those are your words, not mine.

I don't get why "it's not on" for the child to be beside his mother while his younger sister is being changed. Let's say you were at the beach years ago , and your DS when he was 8 or 9 was standing beside you while you dressed his younger sister. And, lets imagine that another parent tut-tutted , and implied that your DS should not be watching his younger sister getting dressed because "a lot of sexual harassment and abuse is at the hands of a family member", what would you have said to them? I think you would have taken serious offence at that implication, if that situation had arisen years ago. And rightly so.

IT's bad enough that people are implying that the mens changeing room is full of paedophile men, but to state that a 9 yr old boy should not be near by when his younger sibling is getting changed is just taking the paranoia to a whole different level.

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Keep your heels, head and standards high

Or maybe it was a 9/10 year old that was thinking,'god i know that girl from somewhere....hmm is she in my school'...and didn't realise he was staring?

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Sometimes, you're making so much noise in your life you don't hear the things that really matter. Like the shattering splinter of hurtful words, the quiet erosion of trust, or the breaking of a heart that makes no sound at all.

I really don't think that's what BP was saying is it? I thought she meant that there was no need for the boy to be in the changing room, as in he could have waited outside. And that the comment about the abuse in families was to counter all the comments about boys potentially being abused in changing rooms? I didn't think she meant the boy was a risk to his sister at all, but maybe I am wrong.

Exactly!

Thankyou angelika, I am not great at putting into words what I mean, but you have hit the nail on the head there. I am not saying that all boys are a danger to their little sisters, but why did this lad need to hang around and leer, that is the word , he wasn't just looking like other boys would, steal a glimpse and turn away, he stared, he didn't flinch when engol gave him the stare, he continued. Now if my 9 year old was to leer at my five year old, I would tell him take a hike, and get out and do something else........... perhaps I am wrong, but the thing is adult locker rooms are not the awful den of vice that has been stated here, boys of 9 can change and get to the door safely, so there really was no need for that mother to keep that boy with her..... it was a private pool, not one with hundreds of strangers.
I seem to be getting into a row here, and that is not my mission, I want to let women know that really the mens lockers are not the worst place for a boy, sometimes it is his own home........ sad to say it, but there ya go, same for a girl, . The fact that everyone jumps on I won't let my ds into a changing room alone, I was asking would you let your dd into a ladies alone? if she went swimming with daddy? would it be ok for a 9 , 10 year old girl to go to a mens locker because she is with daddy? would she look ? yes she would. But, it would be ok for her to go to a ladies locker on her own? most will honestly say yes, but we have seen that women can be just as evil as men. So really the locker room debate is null and void. If the boy is able to dress, able to dry himself, and is at a stage where you can explain the stranger danger, then the child is fit to be in a locker alone.
This whole debate has nothing to do with me, we use unisex rooms where we swim, I just get a big cubicle and I do the girls, dad now changes alone because our five year old is inclined to be fascinated with what boys have.

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The Mother should have been keeping a closer eye on him, boys stare, simple as, it's curiosity, natural and normal but it's also rude and they need to be pulled up on it.
We use a private club for swimming lessons for DS2 who is 7&1/2 (DS1 who is nearly 9 does his in school at the moment). I think it says 8yrs on the door for boys to be allowed in
They both come with me to the womens changing room for a couple of reasons.
Like 4LM they would do too much messing if left to their own devices
DS2 would take at least an hour to dry himself never mind dress
They would kill each other if left to their own devices - can you see a pattern developing here??
I have suggested before that they go into the mens and they have nearly lost their reason, DS1 would be quite a nervy child in unfamiliar surrounding and DS2 is a big fecking baby!
So far there hasn't been an issue but I am very vigilant with them, keep them right in front of me and warn them repeatedly to mind their business and get on with the job in hand.
DS1 is quite modest lately and would keep the towel around himself and would be too busy concentrating on not letting anyone see him naked to be paying attention to anyone else DS2 on the other hand would not only stare but would totally embarrass me with a running commentary if he was let - but he isn't.
So far so good but if I felt it was becoming an issue with anyone then I would just have to insist they went into the mens - btw my worry for young boys in the changing rooms without a parent wouldn't be about other men it would be regarding other children and messing/comments from them.

all boys here, see my sig for ages...i would not bring the older 2 into a womens changing room in a million years. Totally inappropriate. If there were cubicles....yes. When we go as a family, dh takes them to the mens.

Actually to be honest I would only go with them swimming when he is with us for that reason exactly. ds1 could head off to the mens alone but I wouldnt let ds2 but he has his own issues that prevent that. The boys have asked loads of times to go swimming and I have said no because dh was working.

So theres my tuppenceworth....no.....they need to be age 6 and under in the womens area

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mom to 4 boys...11, 8, 4 and 1

Kind of curious - those that think it is acceptable for a ten year old boy to be in the ladies - do you think it is acceotable to for a ten year old girl to be in the men's changing room with their father?

why on earth would a girl get changed into her pyjamas each night in the living room? i don't get changed in my living room so i wouldn't have dd doing it either, when she's that age she'll be sent up to her room to put her pyjamas on. I'd also imagine her bedroom door would be closed over while she dresses even though mammy will still be bathing her at that age, so no big secret, but that's just what people do. So why wouldn't she learn that at home? nothing to be ashamed of, and i'll glady come to help you, but if you can manage by yourself feel free to enjoy your privacy.

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My 5 year old puts her pjs on in the living room most nights!
gets dressed there most mornings too!

really? didn't know people did that

still though, i don't understand the argument, why would you shooe the older brother out? surely if you felt there was a privacy issue you'd just stop letting your daughter get dressed in the living room.

this whole situation would be easier if we all lived in some hippy commune/nudist colony

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Many 3 and 4 year olds are dressed into PJs downstairs... maybe not in your house, but I've certainly got enough friends and families with young kids to know that it's not unusual to do so.
DS and DD have their PJs stored in a press downstairs and every night they jump into the PJs in the living room ... they only go upstairs when it's actually time for bed. They also get dressed downstairs as they eat brekkie in their PJs, so clothes are in a down stairs cupboard to avoid having to trek upstairs again.
When they are older (and when we get wardrobes built in their rooms!) their clothes will be upstairs, but for now, it's downstairs.

But, at 3 or 4, I certainly don't teach them to go into their room and "close over the bedroom door". Not sure why you believe a 3 or 4 year old needs to be taught this, but there is normally only the 4 of us in the house, so I'm struggling to understand who my 4 year old DD would be closing the door over on... my husband? ... me?... her brother aged 5?


Anyway, even if I sent them to get dressed in their rooms, the two of them share a room, so how would my kids get this privacy from one another?

And no.. we're not hippies from a nudist colony in this house. Just a normal family, with no issues around nakedness, or seeing underpants/knickers when kids are small.

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Keep your heels, head and standards high

Read the previous posts colabottle... I'm clearly NOT saying that the older boy should be shooed out of the room. I'm saying the complete opposite. Of COURSE he should not be shooed out of the room.......

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Keep your heels, head and standards high

relax there lulubop, i wasn't calling you a hippy/nudist... just because your kids get their pj's on in the living room that's a bit of a stretch .... i was joking, saying it's a bit of a minefield, wouldn't it be easier if we were all nude, there'd be no issues like these to get around.

also, i wouldn't be teaching her to close the door to keep anybody in particular from seeing her, i just feel that's the way it should be for us, that's how it was for me as a child and it's how we operate in our house. Other people can operate whatever way they like, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not how i'd do things, and i don't know anybody who does that, but then again in our house and our relatives houses, there are always guests in and out so girls would get changed in one of the girls bedrooms with the door closed over, boys in their own bedrooms. If dd didn't get privacy to dress herself she wouldn't know not to follow her uncles upstairs when they pop up to get dressed. kids don't get dressed in communal living areas because you never know who'll be in or out, but there'd be no problem with sisters in and out of the bedroom etc.

dont know if that makes sense, i was just genuinely surprised that kids dress in the family living room, it'd interesting to hear how other people live

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yes, i can read. i know you were saying that he should not be shooed out, i was merely saying "sure why would it even come to that?"

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Becasuae another poster reckoned it was "not on" for an 8/9 year old boy to be near his mother while she is dressing his younger sister, (on the basis that sexual abuse happens in families doncha know) and I queried how it works at home if you adopt this philosophy in the swimming pool dressing room.

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Keep your heels, head and standards high

Becasuae another poster reckoned it was "not on" for an 8/9 year old boy to be near his mother while she is dressing his younger sister, (on the basis that sexual abuse happens in families doncha know) and I queried how it works at home if you adopt this philosophy in the swimming pool dressing room.[/quote]

yeah i know, then i asked why the girl would be changing in the living room in the first place... hence the discussion that

...a lot of people actually do that do I not? No i don't, but i suppose we've people in and out, intersting....

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You know full well BP said nothing of the sort. She said the boy didn't need to be there staring at other children when his mother was dressing his sister. There was no implication whatsoever that the boy was a danger to his sister.