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Hoping someone could help a friend of mine is at her wits end her 4 year old daughter still isnt toilet trained I've no advice for her as I've got boys . She's tried everything reward charts , leaving the taps on , leaving her to wet herself and nothing .
Do you think there maybe an underlying problem or she just has a stubborn slow learner on her hands .
In her own words " She's like a camel " she just holds it in ...

Any advice I could pass on
Thanks

Fantastic book by gina ford called Potty training in 7 days...

I followed it with dd who will be 6 soon, found it really excellent, easy to follow and it's a short read

I have loaned the book to 6 friends who have had quick success using the methods in there..

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ds2 was the very same. We started training him 2 weeks before his 4th birthday. Had to go against all the rules & have the tantrum with him. Explained to him that now was the time to learn to use the toilet like everyone else. Told him he'd have to learn that funny feeling at the front that meant he needed a wee & he could only do that in the nude at first. Took all clothes off the bottom half & left him like that. After a screaming hissy fit for over an hour he came to me & said he thought he felt the funny feeling & would i bring him to the loo...hey presto it was only a matter of timing after that.

Poo then became the issue. we left it for 7 months as we thought it might just come to him naturally. It didnt. After 7 months of shitty knickers up to 6 times a day & no comfort going anywhere we started again. Everyday was a fresh start, but when he pooes himself he lost his knickers. He only got them back going to bed or if he pooed in the toilet. He's been clean the last 4 weeks.

He is still in pull ups at night time. I'm going to wait til the weather heats up then try that one.

HTH

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ds1 Oct '99
ds2 Jul '07

[quote="pineapple46He is still in pull ups at night time. I'm going to wait til the weather heats up then try that one.

HTH[/quote]

Hi - what is the plan for the above? DD is 4 and was trained at 3 and was dry at night in her pull-ups for about 3 months. The cold spell arrived last November 2011 and she started to wet the pull ups most nights. 4/5 out of 7 the pull ups are wet. We have spoken about it but she just gives me this face Part of me thinks she is warm in bed and can't be arsed getting out. Can't think how to move it forward, she has zero interest in the reward thing which I have tried.

Any suggestions welcome.

Sullys

i'm hoping he'll just grasp - but i know i'm clutching at straws

Hate having to do the heavy handed approach but its the only way he seems to get it. Havent thought too much about it but might use the approach of wet your favourite pjs & u'll have to sleep bottomless the next night...something like that. Had 8 weeks of wet bed & duvet most mornings last summer & so not looking forward to that again

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ds1 Oct '99
ds2 Jul '07

Op has the girl been checked by a dr? My niece aged 4 has been having similar problems and it turns out she only has one functioning kidney so couldn't control it. My brother and SIL felt so guilty!

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Thanks for the replies I have mentioned the doctor to her I think this maybe her next step . I just thought someone might identify with it . Her other daughter was tt at 2 so that's her reason for worrying .

my other son trained in a day at 2yr 8months never had an issue with poo & only ever had 6 wet nights. They are all different, but get gp to rule out anything else

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ds1 Oct '99
ds2 Jul '07

Lord, I really think I would go mad if I had to go through weeks of wet sheets and duvets.
Pull-ups it is until she grows out of it. I am hoping (possibly in vain) that when the weather warms up she might do it herself but I cannot see myself chancing wet sheets

Best of luck with it and if you crack it, pls update.

Sullys

Just wanted to say that most of the research indicates that very few children intentionally do this...So I would be very concerned about taking a heavy handed approach or any action that would humiliate them in any way, as this will cause issues with their self esteem etc

for daytime wetting, it would appear that the signal that tells the brain to ..go to the toilet, isn't functioning properly for some children, which causes the issues. For our dd, we invested in a wobl watch, it is basically a watch where you can set a number of alarms, it vibrates so it is very discreet... The rule for my dd is that when it buzzes.. You MUST go to the toilet. We have had no daytime incidents since. I imagine she will have to wear it for a while... But it really helped.

For Night time wetting, in most children and adults, there is a hormone called ADH. it is released at sunset and basically it tells the kidneys to slow down production of urine, again, in some kids, this hormone is not released or is delayed from developing until they are older...it is absolutely not their fault if there is night time wetting as their bodies just aren't functioning like others... Most children catch up/develop the hormone by the time they are 7/8 which is why most drs don't see night time wetting as a major issue until after this age. Couple that with a child who doesnt have the sensation of meeding to pee and they haven't a chance of doing it on their own....There are also ways of training the body/brain of the child to wake up when it's time to pee.... The rodger bed wetting alarm gets great reviews, we are looking at that next... But it's one step at a time and although it's incredibly frustrating at times, the most important thing is not to make your child feel inadequate because they haven't mastered this yet....

I didnt want the heavy handed approach & didnt choose to do it lightly. We sent ds2 to playschool at 3yrs 2 months hoping that when he would see the other kids going to the toilet he would eventually want to do the same. Roll on 10 months he still thought all the other kids were fools as every time they wanted a pee they had to leave whatever they were doing doing go to the toilet etc whereas he could continue what he was doing & could pee at the same time. He would never entertain the potty or sitting on the toilet so at weeks short of his 4th birthday we had had enough.

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ds1 Oct '99
ds2 Jul '07

Dd1 was wet every single night until about a month ago. She is 3.5. We bribed her and told her that if she was dry in the morning she would get a kinder egg. Worked a treat. Haven't had a single wet night since. She was just not wanting to get up in the morning to wee. Although I may not like the heavy handedness in some cases it might be the right thing to do if the parents recognises that it might work. We had to take a stronger approach on pooing and after 1.5 years of horrible stress for everyone we 'solved' it in two days. It would have seemed tough to an outsider but we knew what she is like and she was so pleased with herself it was the right thing to do. No doctors or outsiders embarrassing her but it didn't just happen and was getting worse and worse as time went on. I don't think you can generalise one way or another. Every child is so very different. My 21 month old has fully trained herself entirely. Never a single issue or request from us. Would never have imagined it. Unlike the elder she is utterly unbribable so glad she did this herself.

thank you,

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ds1 Oct '99
ds2 Jul '07

I think there is a vast difference between rewarding your child with a treat for getting up in the morning and making an effort to get to the toilet on time and stay dry ....and.... punishing your child for having an accident by stripping them or making them wear no pyjama bottoms or in fact, any negative action such as shouting or making them feel bad in any way about themselves.

You are aplying adult conscious thinking to children who just are not capable of rationalising their actions to that extent, especially when asleep.

I was given some great advice a few years ago by a very wise mm with lots of experience who when I was at the end of my tether with toilet training of DD2.....she asked me how I would feel if I went into work every day and had difficulty in doing a part of my job and as a result my boss lambasted and humiliated me every time I failed... would I be encouraged to do better or would I be demoralised and feel bad about myself?.... and what should/could my boss do in order to help me improve things, should he support me as I learnt, with encouragement no matter how long it takes for me to master it or just keep shouting until I did it right....

I think once you put yourself into a situation, and try and look at how you would feel....you know what the right thing to do is...

Of course people don't have to agree with me, but in my own experience my children have responded better to positive reinforcement than to any punishment...it's not just about toilet training, I think its a life lesson. I am not saing its easy to do, I know more than most how hard it is not lose your cool with your kids when they have accidents, I have done this three times now and am happy to report, that they do eventually grow out of it... and taking the positive route is far less stressful and less harmful to the child than shouting at them...

My nephew had issues with tt at night he is just a really heavy sleeper and does not wake up - they brought him to the gp who said that tt at night is not viewed as a problem until the child is about 7 or 8 years old so I dont think ye need to worry yet.

Sullys, my ds trained very easily thank god but I still have a potty beside his bed in case of emergency (our bathrooom is downstairs). I often hear him getting up to use the potty and going back to bed. It might help your dd if she doesn't have far to go.

Thanks, but the loo is only feet away from her. I think I just have to let her grow out of it with some bribery thrown in every so often to see if it helps along.

When I was training her she wee'd everywhere except the loo for a week until I produced chocolate bars for her to see and touch.

She went straight to the loo and happily pee'd in it without any problem and we have not had a problem since.

She sleeps really well at night and just may be in a deep sleep especially during the cold weather.

I guess we will just keep trying and hope for the best. Pull-ups are not the end of the world.

Sullys

Your right, at her age I wouldn't worry a bit!