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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:41 am 
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http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... tml?via=mr

An article by Carl O'Brien in the Irish Times shows a complete lack of responsibility for spending in this country. The buck doesn't appear to stop at any one particular person so when we hear of such wasteful spending, who is responsible? It appears that no one is.

Quote:
€650 million spent on unrealised projects

€30m
Children’s hospital

Some €30 million has been spent by the hospital board – mainly in fees to architects, engineers and other consultants or experts – in progressing its plans. The Government says a revised plan will be produced in the coming months.


€42m
Dart Underground

Plans and land acquisition for the Dart Underground have cost millions, but the project has been delayed indefinitely under the new capital spending plans.


€50m
Media Lab Europe

The high-technology “seed bed”, based in Dublin’s Liberties, was run jointly by the government and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and was one of Mr Ahern’s most favoured projects. Founded in 2000, it went into liquidation a few years later, with consultants describing its output as “dismal”, “surprisingly weak” and “mediocre”.

€130m
PPARS

The HSE’s information technology project started small, at an estimated cost of €9 million in 1997, and ballooned to a cost of €130 million in 2004, before being put on hold by the Health Service Executive in 2007.


€55m
E-voting

Martin Cullen ordered more than 700 of the machines at a cost of €51 million, only to have them placed in storage in 2004 when security concerns emerged. Attempts to sell them have so far been unsuccessful.


€1.5m
Hospital co-location

Almost €1.5 million was paid in legal and financial costs associated with the now abandoned plans to develop co-located private hospitals. Project agreements for each of these hospitals expired in March 2011.


€44m
Decentralisation

Millions have been spent on acquiring sites for the Government’s decentralisation programme in locations where plans to transfer public service offices and State agencies have been either postponed or axed.


€18m
Metro West

Millions has been spent on the design of this section of the Metro. It, too, has been shelved indefinitely as a result of cutbacks to capital spending plans.


€150m
Metro North

The decision not to proceed with the Metro North rail project as part of the 2012-2016 capital investment programme will cost the State more than €150 millionincluding compensation to the project bidders.


€100m
Bertie Bowl

Millions were spent on consultancy fees and the clearances of the Abbotstown development in preparation for a national stadium. Political opposition from Fianna Fáil’s coalition partners, the PDs, ultimately scuppered the project, although the FAI went on to relocate its headquarters at the site.


€42m
Thornton Hall

The Government spent €30 million acquiring land for the Thornton Hall “superprison”, which has been delayed indefinitely. A further €12 million has been spent on original plans for the prison and the Central Mental Hospital. Both designs have since been scrapped. Plans for a scaled-down version of the prison have also been long-fingered.


. . . and what €650 million could buy


185 SCHOOLS
+1 CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL
+1.5 AVIVA STADIUMS
+15 MILES OF LUAS TRACK


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:43 am 
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Insanity!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:44 am 
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This is not a public sector bash, or at least at worst it's a "top level management" public sector bash, but really what annoys me is the lack of accountability in the public sector for those who take these decisions. In the private sector, if a project went to the wall like this, they'd be fired. The culture of non-accountability at top level in this country is a disgrace.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:52 am 
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Riam wrote:
This is not a public sector bash, or at least at worst it's a "top level management" public sector bash, but really what annoys me is the lack of accountability in the public sector for those who take these decisions. In the private sector, if a project went to the wall like this, they'd be fired. The culture of non-accountability at top level in this country is a disgrace.


Really? How many senior managers in, for example, the banking sector were unceremoniously turfed out?

This myth that private sector workers get fired when things go wrong really gets on my wick. It's actually very difficult, if not impossible, to summarily dismiss someone for incompetence regardless of whether they're public or private sector. The provisions of the constitution regarding procedural fairness and the Unfair Dismissals Acts apply equally to all employees with more than a year's service. Doesn't matter what sector they're in.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:56 am 
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When I posted the link to the article I didn't want the thread to be a Public v Private debate again. I know there have been loads of threads on that :biggrin:

I just thought when the government of today wants to sell the family silver (for want of a better description when they are planning on selling state assets), shouldn't they be seen to be stopping the wastage first before a single part of the state assets are sold off?

€650m would go a long way to paying off the bond holders, wouldn't it?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:57 am 
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Lady MacDuff wrote:
Riam wrote:
This is not a public sector bash, or at least at worst it's a "top level management" public sector bash, but really what annoys me is the lack of accountability in the public sector for those who take these decisions. In the private sector, if a project went to the wall like this, they'd be fired. The culture of non-accountability at top level in this country is a disgrace.


Really? How many senior managers in, for example, the banking sector were unceremoniously turfed out?

This myth that private sector workers get fired when things go wrong really gets on my wick. It's actually very difficult, if not impossible, to summarily dismiss someone for incompetence regardless of whether they're public or private sector. The provisions of the constitution regarding procedural fairness and the Unfair Dismissals Acts apply equally to all employees with more than a year's service. Doesn't matter what sector they're in.


I think we can all agree the banking sector is a rule unto itself.

I've certainly seen people encouraged to leave or moved sideways if projects they were running didn't pan out. I probably shouldn't have said "fired" above, I was letting my annoyance get the better of me, but certainly shunted sideways, or "pressured" into moving elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:02 pm 
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It's disgusting to see such waste when men, women & children are suffering due to lack of funding for hospitals, schools, employment etc. I work in the Public Sector & the waste I've seen is small in comparison but it drives me mad. I complain about it every chance I get, but I'm a small fry & nothing changes.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:05 pm 
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we don't do firing in Ireland, public or private sector, in my opinion

I actually work as a consultant (form an orderly queue to bash me now :biggrin: ) and often review projects for govt bodies and it's next to flipping impossible to get them to take a decision to kill a project, usually by the time it gets up and running there are so many vested interests, political shennanigans etc that they are fantastic a burying "bad" recommendations and allo it to trundle on until it becomes "too big to fail" - sound familiar?

That being said the area I work in is getting better, better accountability is required by those that get grants/spend money and projects ARE getting killed if the mid term deliverables aren't being met....I am a bit hopeful that there are significant reforms in the area I work in, but def lots more work to do

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Just 15 miles of Luas track - is that correct?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Siobhan wrote:
Just 15 miles of Luas track - is that correct?

I'd imagine that you'd be able to pay for 15 miles of Luas track after spending the €650m on the other stuff listed ahead of it on that 'shopping list'


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:13 pm 
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tiedtheknot wrote:
Siobhan wrote:
Just 15 miles of Luas track - is that correct?

I'd imagine that you'd be able to pay for 15 miles of Luas track after spending the €650m on the other stuff listed ahead of it on that 'shopping list'


Sorry yeah, read it wrong the first time . . .


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:38 pm 
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The big difference between public and private sector in this context is competition, yes people would be hard to fire for bad judgements but the organisation would suffer overall as its reputation becomes tarnished, causing a loss in business leading to jobs being lost over time indirectly or even the closure of the company.

This is what drives a culture of responsibility, accountability and appropriate weighing of risks and benefits that is missing in the public sector. The results above speak for themselves.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Exactly. The lack of accountability overall leads to lack of accountability at a micro level.


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